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First Rift Africans ...

26K views 177 replies 10 participants last post by  wryan 
#1 ·
Well, today I finally took the plunge and picked up my first Rift Lake Africans from one of our small LFS.

Pseudotropheus Acei and Julidiochromis transcriptus (unsure of what, if any, localized sub-variety - they were pretty busy and I figured I could ask later when it wasn't quite so hectic)

The Julies came from a breeding pair they had for a long time but finally sold.

They are all small juveniles ... about 1 1/8" to 1 1/4" long ... three of each.

I contemplated taking all the Julies (they had seven left) but then had second thoughts and figured I'd see if I can pick up some more individuals of each from another source, hopefully for genetic diversity's sake.

Right now they are all in a 10 gallon tank ... figured I could get away with it for a little bit, until I get some more larger tanks set up.

Their behavior and interactions are fascinating to watch.

All I can say beyond that, is that my homebrew fishfood appears to be very popular with them ... :lol:
 
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#79 ·
DJRansome said:
I would not use softened water regardless of the test results.
In terms of the Rift Lake fish, wasn't really planning to ... beyond maybe using it maybe a 1 to 4 ratio, to temper the (cold, hard) water straight from the well up to an acceptable temperature.

Just mainly included the softened/treated water numbers for comparison/completeness/comment.
 
#81 ·
Got two coats of black put on the backs of the two 20L's and the three 10g's ... hopefully one more coat will do it.

This time I used Rustoleum "Painter's Touch" flat black latex paint ... which advises using a brush rather than a roller. Wasn't impressed with the brush-on the first coat, so I went with a small 3" roller on the second coat and it looked a lot better than the first.

Probably didn't wait quite as long as I should have to apply the second coat tho, as there appeared to be some bubbling where the first coat may not have fully dried after initially applying the second coat. Interestingly, as the second coat dried, the bubbling seemed to go away ... although I need to inspect the back closely to be certain. Be interesting to see how it holds up long term.

I didn't bother masking the frames, as I figured it was latex and it should be pretty easy to scrape off any excess with a credit card.

When did the 55g last year I sprayed it, using Rustoleum "Flexi-Dip" - a pliable plastic/rubberized paint that is supposedly easy to remove ... just peels off. That appears to have held up well ... but I didn't really care for having to mask it off to spray it, all the overspray in the air, etc. ... and if I were to use that again I'd be inclined to just roll it on.
 
#82 ·
Also did some needed maintenance on the 55g since it's been up and running for year now. It's a planted tank (low-tech) and I had tried a number of different plants in it, some of which made it and others which didn't.

Anubias, Java fern, and Java moss all did well ... in fact, the Java moss (free-floating) did a little too well ... to the point that it was taking over the top of the tank and cutting the light on two sides. So I pulled most of that about a month ago and gave about half of it away to a neighbor up the street. If what I have here survives, it might get used in 10g's for cherry shrimp or fry, or get used in a sump to consume nitrates.

Also trimmed back the roots of the Java ferns, and pruned off some more sprigs to propagate on other bare rocks and fill in holes on existing ones.

There's an Amazon Sword in there that was doing really great after I got it initially ... but it's taken a beating, having been chewed on by various inhabitants. Still, it's not gone yet ... I failed the last time I took a stab at trying to pull it, due to the amount of roots down in the gravel. Probably need to get that out of there, prune it, and find a place to stick it where it won't get chewed up so bad.

Was a good amount of dead/decaying plant material along the back of the tank, trapped in smaller lava rocks, which I stirred up and let the filters remove overnight. Still need to vac the gravel there before putting the rock work and aquascaping such as it is back together.
 
#83 ·
Help me out here:

Have five A. stuartgranti F2 "Ngara Flametails" 1 1/4" juvies coming tomorrow which will go in the 55g for the time being. So with ...

Eight P. acei - 1 1/2" - 1 3/4"

Five A. stuartgranti - 1 1/4"

Three M. auratus - 1 1/4" (probably will pick up more)

I'm guessing that I'm going to need some additional tanks ... eventually.

Here's a couple of questions:

1. The acei's will need a larger tank due to their size ... 48" x 18" footprint ok ? ... or does it need to be a 6 footer ? (I realize that the answer is probably somewhat dependent on who the additional tank mates might be ... my intention is to go with a male female mix, regardless of who they are)

2. Given that both the acei's and flametails are reputedly both fairly peaceful, but have similar coloration (although the inverse of each other) could they co-exist in the same tank without aggression/hybridization issues ?

Other species, one or more of which, that I'm looking at keeping that might factor/fit into that particular tank equation:

Labidochromis Caeruleus
Metriaclima estherae (Red)
Iodotropheus sprengerae

3. From what I can gather the M. auratus is a particularly aggressive mbuna species that probably shouldn't be housed with the above long-term. At their current size, there does not appear to be much in the way of aggression presently ... but I realize that this likely will not continue indefinitely, as the fish mature.

What would be the minimum size tank, if I were to keep these on a "species-only tank" basis, with a male/female mix ?

What ratio of male to female ?
 
#84 ·
Looks like we may have impending nuptials here.

Today one of the Julidochromis outcasts (there were three) - one of the larger ones - has taken up residence in a small rock cave/tunnel structure in The Forbidden Zone on the right side of the tank and is being not only tolerated by, but actually tended to and guarded by its Ruler ... who seems pretty focused on ensuring that the remaining two come nowhere near that side of the tank.

Lots of interesting behavior by the apparently newly-committed couple ... :lol:
 
#85 ·
My M. estherae are jerks they fight all the time..my l.caeruleus are pretty mild mannered. Those Auratus will be a problem. They are nice looking fish however. Maybe you can have them in a tank all by themselves..
I see them in tanks at the LFS or wally world usually with kenyii....I just say to myself poor people that buy those for their community tank. We used to get many trade ins at the store I worked at. I had a deal with the boss. We had first dibs. I got alot of cool fish that way.
 
#86 ·
Ray,

RayMontana said:
My M. estherae are jerks they fight all the time..my l.caeruleus are pretty mild mannered.
Thanks for the insights.

RayMontana said:
Those Auratus will be a problem.
Yeah ... I got an example of that tonight ... there's still a Spotted African Leaf Fish in the 55g that I haven't rehomed or moved to another tank yet. Was the more attractive of the two I had, but the smaller of the two, and was constantly bullied by the larger one. He's pretty slow-moving and laid back ... and has been a little under the weather ... still recovering from all the aggression.

He was going after a chunk of freeze-dried tubifex that one of the Auratus had it's eyes on ... and the Auratus took a pretty nasty peck at him on his gill plate.

Kinda surprising, given the Leaf fish is probably getting close to 4" (Auratus around 1 1/4") ... and is probably 8 to 10 times the body mass of the Auratus ... :eek:

RayMontana said:
They are nice looking fish however. Maybe you can have them in a tank all by themselves..
Or in a tank with tankmates that are willing and capable of defending themselves.

Either way, I'm good with it.

RayMontana said:
I see them in tanks at the LFS or wally world usually with kenyii....I just say to myself poor people that buy those for their community tank.
LOL ... yeah ... they're probably in for some nasty surprises.

RayMontana said:
We used to get many trade ins at the store I worked at. I had a deal with the boss. We had first dibs. I got alot of cool fish that way.
Sounds like it was a sweet deal ... :thumb:

Thanks again.
 
#87 ·
wryan said:
Help me out here:

Have five A. stuartgranti F2 "Ngara Flametails" 1 1/4" juvies coming tomorrow which will go in the 55g for the time being. So with ...

Eight P. acei - 1 1/2" - 1 3/4"

Five A. stuartgranti - 1 1/4"

Three M. auratus - 1 1/4" (probably will pick up more)

I'm guessing that I'm going to need some additional tanks ... eventually.

Here's a couple of questions:

1. The acei's will need a larger tank due to their size ... 48" x 18" footprint ok ? ... or does it need to be a 6 footer ? (I realize that the answer is probably somewhat dependent on who the additional tank mates might be ... my intention is to go with a male female mix, regardless of who they are)

2. Given that both the acei's and flametails are reputedly both fairly peaceful, but have similar coloration (although the inverse of each other) could they co-exist in the same tank without aggression/hybridization issues ? ...
Mmmm ... alrighty then ...

From what I can discern from reading this article:

The Peacocks of Lake Malawi by Marc Elieson - cichlid-forum.com

... although it looks like some folks do it, mixing mbuna and peacocks is a less than ideal situation ... certainly for the peacocks, due to the mbuna's temperament ...

The question regarding hybridization is still unclear to me, but is largely moot given the above I guess ...

Still not sure on the tank length tho' ...
 
#88 ·
Peacocks and acei should work in 48x18 or larger.

What is A stuartgranti? There are lots of kinds, including Ngara. Those would have to be in a separate tank.

Auratus ideally would be 1m:7f in a 72" tank although some have had limited success in 48x18 with 1-2 other mbuna species.
 
#89 ·
DJRansome said:
Peacocks and acei should work in 48x18 or larger.
Got it.

DJRansome said:
What is A stuartgranti? There are lots of kinds, including Ngara.
Aulonocara stuartgranti (Ngara) "Flametail Peacock" ?

DJRansome said:
Those would have to be in a separate tank.
Ok.

Is that due to aggression, tank size required, too similar in coloration, possible hybridization ?

DJRansome said:
Auratus ideally would be 1m:7f in a 72" tank although some have had limited success in 48x18 with 1-2 other mbuna species.
As of this afternoon I have six individuals ... they are about 1" to 1 1/4" or so long and all have the juvenile/female coloration.

Thanks.
 
#90 ·
The missing Julie at the LFS materialized ... so now we have 5 of the Julies ...

Dunno if this had anything to do with the decreased aggression/pairing/etc. or not, but after I added structure I was doing a little reading on here and ran across an old post of Fogelhund's that suggested adding some (zebra ?) danios to the tank as dithers ...

I had three here in the 55g so I netted them and moved them to the 10g ... the following morning was when I observed the dominant Julie being pretty friendly with one of the others.
 
#91 ·
Dithers are good if your fish are hiding. That's not your issue, right? Your juli's are not hiding...they are forming a pair which is what they should do.

You would not mix peacock species because they crossbreed, but more importantly once mixed, you will not be able to sell or rehome the original fish or any survivor fry because the females of different species are basically indistinguishable. Not a lot of demand for "unknown peacock female".

You had peacocks listed twice...one A. stuartgranti and one A stuartgranti Ngara. I thought you had 2 groups.
 
#92 ·
DJRansome said:
Dithers are good if your fish are hiding. That's not your issue, right?
Yes, that's correct ... they aren't ... although they flee from aggressive behavior on the part of the dominant fish.

But none of them have actually retreated to a spot or spots and stay there ... they'll all still cruise around the tank to some extent ... and more so now, as opposed to when there was less structure.

It's looks like I had the terminology wrong - should have been: (danios as) target fish ?

DJRansome said:
Your juli's are not hiding...they are forming a pair which is what they should do.
That's appears to me to be the case ... although there is an additional development.

Three of the five are roughly the same size, with one of these tending to be the dominant one, who has tried to rule the tank.

Next is a somewhat smaller one - maybe roughly half the size of the first three above - which was the one I picked up today. He's still holding fins erect in interactions - which seems to cause aggressive behavior on the part of the dominant fish.

Finally, there is one about half the size of the one immediately above. This one has learned better than to display erect finnage.

And when I say "half the size" above I mean body mass not length. Just guessing, I'd say they might be from three successive spawnings.

The additional development is that the one who was accepted into the dominant one's area/side of the tank seems also to be spending time with the other larger one.

But the majority of the shimmying and shaking is with the dominant fish.

DJRansome said:
You would not mix peacock species because they crossbreed, but more importantly once mixed, you will not be able to sell or rehome the original fish or any survivor fry because the females of different species are basically indistinguishable. Not a lot of demand for "unknown peacock female".
Got it, makes sense.

DJRansome said:
You had peacocks listed twice...one A. stuartgranti and one A stuartgranti Ngara. I thought you had 2 groups.
Yeah, sorry ... I didn't make it clear - there is only one group of peacocks: 5x of A stuartgranti Ngara
 
#94 ·
In the last 36 or so hours, the behavior of the Julie who was being courted by the most dominant Julie in the tank changed and it joined in with its prospective partner and started exhibiting aggression towards all the rest of the fish in the tank. A relentless "two against the world".

So last night, after removing the Ctenopoma acutirostre from the 55G to a newly setup 10G, I moved the three "outcast" Julies and the zebra danios to the 55G ...

The Ctenopoma is pretty slow and laid back and was being out-competed as far as food goes in the 55G ... since the P. acei and M. auratus all appear to pretty much resemble a pack of starving wolves in the presence of any food.

Additionally, over the last month or two, the Ctenopoma has become very tentative about taking food into it's mouth, and looking like it's having trouble swallowing. I've generally fed them (I originally had two, one since rehomed to the LFS) freeze-dried Tubifex ... which was happily accepted.

When I made up the last batch of my homebrew food, I over-dried it in the oven ... and it became about as hard as concrete. That hasn't been a problem - since was intended to feed smaller fish, who could couldn't fit the whole pieces into their mouths and actually had a bit of an upside in that it took quite a while to soften up in the tank ... allowing them to pick at it longer.

Could be that at some point, the Ctenopoma ingested a chunk of this latest batch and was injured by doing so. As of a week/ten days ago, I've started to put the food into water for 15 minutes or so to soften it up before putting it into to the tank.

The Julies I placed in the 55G seem to be holding their own against the Malawians ... in fact, the only trouble I've seen has been between the largest Julidochromis (larger) and the smallest M. auratus (smaller) ... all at the instigation of the auratus ...

Dunno what's up with that ... other than mebbe some kind of "small man syndrome" thing ... :lol:

Everyone else just pretty much ignores them.

The Julie pair in the 10G seem pretty happy at having the place to themselves ... they cruised around the tank together scoping it out, after I finished putting it back together when I was done moving the other fish to the 55G.

I have a flat piece of sandstone I will add to the tank today ... just in case these two have any immediate plans.
 
#95 ·
Got the 4th coat of paint put on the two 20L's and three 10G's day before yesterday, after checking for light bleed through on the 3rd coat with a flashlight. Hope that does it.

Also got the acrylic lids for the 10G's cut to size and got slots cut into one of them for the filter air line and heater wire using a Roto-Zip and a rotary burr. These are 1/8" thick acrylic and I think they are going to work fine. They are capable of supporting a small (6 or 7 lb) cat without bowing too badly. Just to be safe I'm going to solvent weld a 1" tall brace of the same material stood on edge running front to back. Have to clean up the edges on them today and might try my hand at flame polishing them.

After that it's on to cutting wood for the racks/stands.
 
#96 ·
Not a whole lot to report on the Julie 10G ... things are fairly calm for the most part.

The less dominant fish seems to spend of its (her ?) time kind of staying out of the way the more dominant fish (him ?) in various locations ... usually in a (lower) corner of the tank or on top/behind/next to the sponge filter. She usually does come out to eat when I feed them. But she isn't staying in one place, like she might be guarding eggs.

The more dominant fish spends his time either patrolling the tank, eating algae off the plants/rocks/heater/sponge filter, or charging at the less dominant fish. These really don't seem to be "attacks" per se ... as the more dominant fish doesn't seem to be biting and the less dominant fish usually doesn't move far (couple of inches at most) and usually returns immediately and proceeds to shake and shimmy, along with exhibiting short darting motions.

There's a pretty good amount of brown (diatomaceous ?) algae starting to grow on the plants, heater, etc. I assume that would be good for any fry that might eventually show up.

I got the gravel thoroughly vacuumed in the 55G tank and took a couple of pieces of the new lava rock I picked up and busted it up with a masonry chisel and hand sledge into smaller pieces. Have added about half of that so far, will finish scrubbing and rinsing the rest of it off and add it to the tank later today. Like how it's shaping up and the fish seem to be enjoying the additional nooks and crannies as well.

Will take some pics later tonight after it gets dark out and post them.
 
#98 ·
Aaron,

Thanks for the input.

Aaron S said:
The "charging" behavior is pretty common for mbuna and not a concern.
I probably didn't make it clear in my post: These aren't mbuna ... they are Tanganyikans - Julidochromis transcriptus (theoretically)

Aaron S said:
When fish spend a long time behind filters or otherwise oriented vertically that can often lead to disease and death from the induced stress from aggression and you might want to try to fix it.
Fair enough ... although the amount of time it's spending vertically isn't anywhere near the majority of the time. I should probably take a video of the behaviors and post it so you and others can see exactly what I'm seeing.

Have any ideas on how to fix it ?

I've added a good amount of structure to tank - more plants, additional rocks with caves/tunnels ...
 
#100 ·
Unless your "juli-rock" is vertical, likely any juli that swims vertical is not happy. This is the behavior of a julidochromis that is being rejected by the established pair. Keep an eye on him/her in case you have to rescue. The fix is not more structure...the expectation is to have to remove fish that don't pair off and are driven away.
 
#101 ·
Short (one minute thirty second) video showing an interaction.

The fish on the right is the dominant one ... and apparently the "side roll" when he is in the rocks is an aggressive display.

A longer video (3:30) will follow in the next post showing the charging behavior (occurs @ the 3:00 minute mark ... unfortunately, the interaction after the charge occurs at the back of the tank and is partially obscured by plants)

 
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